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Posted by lexherman
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5/06/2005
09:35:38

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Subject: solid sacrifice

Message:
I have this idea that a solid sacrifice happens more often in OTB chess then in correspondance chess. What is your opinion and if so why is that?

Posted by nottop
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5/06/2005
09:43:33

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Message:
Keres sacrificed more in his correspondence games (although he was also younger). He stated that the positional or long-term sacrufice was more suited to correspondence play - attacker needs more time than defender in these nebulous sacrificial positions.
As to discrete sacrifice positions - likely the correspondence player with more time will deflect these before they occur - hard to see it coming over the board. There are also unsound and unclear sacrifices that succeed in otb play because of time pressure.


Posted by lexherman
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5/06/2005
11:06:14

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Best sacrifice

Message:
What is the best sacrifice in correspondance chess..played by top players....without obvious positional/ tactical lesser moves?

Posted by lexherman
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5/06/2005
11:19:44

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election best sacrifice

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Let's hold an election of the best sacrifice played here at GK. Contenders can send their game...preferably with some explanation... i will dig into my games if i can find one that is solid enough..

Posted by lexherman
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5/06/2005
11:33:03

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interesting article

Message:
i found this interesting article about this subject i like to share:
www.correspondancechess.com/ccca/sanak03.htm


Posted by alberlie
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5/06/2005
14:50:42

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nice article

Message:
Thanks :o)

Posted by ccmcacollister
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5/06/2005
15:14:15

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?! I wonder

Message:
I'd say its the opposite. 62% of my own postal games had a sac of a pawn or more by one side or the other as far as general sacrificialness (and I wasnt really a book gambit player), tho I suppose this is miore speculative. But I also found that solid sound sacs were more common postally than otb. So many otb sacs are not solid. But if a postal sac has a way out, I think its more l likely found. I can see where it might be said that otb is less accurate in general and so the position where a correct sacrifice exists is more likely to occur. But the thing is, will the attacker actually enter into it? Seems more likely in corr where his ability to judge it sound & execute it is greater, thru the degree of complexities that have probably been present to make it possible in the first place.
That's just my impressions and I can see where a case can be made in the other direction too. It would be very interesting to have a d-base of just sacrificial games!
To rephrase it I guess what I am saying is that tho I think the fact that a correct sac situation would exist to be made is probably greater in otb, the actual occurance of it being found, made and properly executed will be greater in corr. And in saying that I'm considering Exp/master games. Or probably below those too. And not GM games, where otb execution should be better than at lower level. And I've not had much in the way of corr GM games to compare! But anylitacal correctness must get closer betwixt the 2 forms the higher you go. And the finding of sacs.


Posted by soikins
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5/07/2005
13:58:01

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sacrifice

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I had an interesting Team Match against sion126 where as white I sacrificed a knight on f7 and as black I sacrificed a knight on f2. Both games ended in draw in a deep endgame.

[Event "Team match"]
[Site "-> gameknot.com
[Date "2005.01.18"]
[White "soikins"]
[Black "sion126"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2080"]
[BlackElo "2029"]
[TimeControl "1/259200"]
[Mode "ICS"]
[Termination "normal"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. Nc3 e6 5. Bg5 dxc4
6. e3 Bb4 7. Bxc4 O-O 8. O-O Be7 9. Rc1 h6 10. Bxf6 Bxf6
11. Qc2 Nb8 12. Qe4 Be7 13. Ne5 Nd7 14. Nxf7 Rxf7 15. Qxe6 Qf8
16. Nd5 Bd6 17. Nxc7 Ne5 18. dxe5 Bxe6 19. Nxe6 Qe7 20. exd6 Qxd6
21. Nd4 Kf8 22. Bxf7 Kxf7 23. Rc3 Kf6 24. Rfc1 Qb6 25. b3 Re8
26. h4 g5 27. hxg5+ hxg5 28. Rc3c5 Re5 29. Rxe5 Kxe5 30. a4 g4
31. Kf1 Qb4 32. Rc2 Kf6 33. Ke2 Qe7 34. Rc8 Qd6 35. Rg8 Qa6+
36. Nb5 Qe6 37. Rf8+ Kg6 38. Nd4 Qa6+ 39. Nb5 Qc6 40. Rg8+
1/2-1/2

[Event "Team match"]
[Site "-> gameknot.com
[Date "2005.03.13"]
[White "sion126"]
[Black "soikins"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2029"]
[BlackElo "2080"]
[TimeControl "1/259200"]
[Mode "ICS"]
[Termination "normal"]

1. e4 e6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. d3 d4 5. Nb1 c5
6. c3 Nc6 7. e5 Nd5 8. cxd4 cxd4 9. Be2 Qc7 10. O-O Bc5
11. Re1 O-O 12. Bf1 Bd7 13. a3 Rac8 14. Nbd2 a5 15. Nb3 Bb6
16. a4 f6 17. exf6 Nxf6 18. Bg5 Ng4 19. Nbd2 Nxf2 20. Kxf2 Qxh2
21. Re4 Ne5 22. Rh4 Nxf3 23. Nxf3 Qd6 24. Kg1 Rc5 25. Bd2 Bc6
26. Rh3 Rf6 27. Be2 Qd7 28. Qe1 h6 29. b4 axb4 30. Bxb4 Rcf5
31. a5 Bc7 32. Bd2 g5 33. Rh1 g4 34. Nh4 Rf5f2 35. Qxf2 Rxf2
36. Kxf2 h5 37. Kg1 Qd5 38. Bf1 Qb5 39. Re1 Kf7 40. Re2 Bg3
41. Be1 Bxe1 42. Rxe1 Qxa5 43. Re2 Qc7 44. Rh2 Qg3 45. Rf2+ Kg7
46. Be2 b5 47. Bf3 Qd6 48. Rh1 gxf3 49. Nxf3 Qf4 50. Rxh5 Qc1+
51. Rf1 Qe3+ 52. Rf2 Bxf3 53. Rh3 Qc1+ 54. Rf1 Bd1 55. Rg3+ Kh7
56. Kh2 Qh6+ 57. Rh3 Bh5 58. g4 Qd2+ 59. Kh1 b4 60. gxh5 b3
61. Rg3 b2 62. Rfg1 Qe2 63. Rg3g7+ Kh6 64. Rg7g6+ Kxh5 65. Rg6g8 Qf3+
1/2-1/2


Posted by drdesoto
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5/08/2005
03:42:18

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Solid sacrifice in CC ...

Message:
for me means, a sacrifice you can not refute at a glance. Normally sacrifices in CC do not lead to an immediate win but to a complicate, doubtful position and lots of variations difficult to calculate and to decide who has an advantage. On a certain playing strength for me thats the main value of a CC-sacrifice. In the end I would say CC-sacrifices are more solid than OTB ones, but also get disproved more often

e.g.:

[Event "4th GK tournament"]
[Site "-> gameknot.com
[Date "2003.10.18"]
[White "drdesoto"]
[Black "ghorani"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2196"]
[BlackElo "2109"]


1. e4 c5 2. f4 d5 3. Nf3 dxe4 4. Ng5?! Nf6 5. Bc4?! Bg4
6. Bxf7+ Kd7 7. Qxg4+ Nxg4 8. Be6+ Kc6 9. Bxg4 e6 10. Nc3 Na6
11. a3 Be7 12. Nf7 Qd4 13. Bxe6 Nc7 14. Ne2 Qf6 15. Ne5+ Kd6
16. Bc4 Qh4+ 17. Ng3 Ne8 18. O-O Kc7 19. Nf5 Qf6 20. Ne3 Rd8
21. Nd5+ Rxd5 22. Bxd5 c4 23. Bxe4 Bc5+ 24. Kh1 Nd6 25. d3 Nxe4
26. dxe4 Bd4 27. Nf3 Bxb2 28. e5 Qb6 29. Rb1 c3 30. f5 Qa6
31. Bf4 Qa4 32. Ne1 Kc8 33. e6 Qe4 34. Nd3 Qxf5 35. Rbe1 Bxa3
36. Rea1 Qf8 37. Bg3 Qe7 38. Rf7 Qxe6 39. Rc7+ Kd8 40. Rxa3 Rf8
41. h4 Rf1+ 42. Kh2 1-0

Best,

drdesoto


Posted by cairo
play-online-chess.com

5/08/2005
14:00:13

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I

Message:
had the pleasure, to play this Bishop-sacrifice in move 29. and finally win the game in move 56.

[Event "acpro's mini-tournament"]
[Site "-> gameknot.com
[Date "2004.10.15"]
[White "cairo"]
[Black "flyordie"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2279"]
[BlackElo "2213"]
[TimeControl "259200+172800"]
[Mode "ICS"]
[Termination "normal"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7
6. Be2 a6 7. O-O Nf6 8. Be3 Bb4 9. Na4 O-O 10. Nxc6 bxc6
11. c4 Be7 12. Qc2 c5 13. f4 d6 14. Bf3 Rb8 15. Rad1 Nd7
16. Nc3 Bb7 17. b3 Rfd8 18. Qf2 Rbc8 19. Qg3 Bc6 20. Bg4 Nf6
21. f5 e5 22. Bf3 Kf8 23. Rfe1 Rcb8 24. Bg5 Bb7 25. Rd3 Rdc8
26. Red1 Rcd8 27. Qe1 Kg8 28. Qh4 h6 29. Bxh6 gxh6 30. Qxh6 Nh7
31. Be2 Bf8 32. Rg3+ Kh8 33. Qh4 Qe7 34. Qh5 f6 35. Rdd3 Rd7
36. Rg6 Qf7 37. Qh4 Bc6 38. Rdg3 Be7 39. Qg4 Qf8 40. Nd5 Re8
41. Rg7 Bd8 42. Rxd7 Bxd7 43. Qh4 Bc6 44. Rh3 Qg7 45. Bh5 Bxd5
46. cxd5 Re7 47. Bg6 Rb7 48. Bxh7 Qg5 49. Qxg5 fxg5 50. Bg6+ Kg8
51. Rh6 c4 52. bxc4 Rb2 53. Be8 Bb6+ 54. Kf1 Kf8 55. Bh5 Rf2+
56. Ke1 Ke7 1-0

Best wishes
Cairo


Posted by wolstoncroft1
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5/09/2005
00:34:17

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Message:
time pressure makes gambits much more justifyable. Have heard that and read that from great players.

Posted by bogg
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5/09/2005
09:44:40

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time pressure

Message:
But those old 1. e4 e5 gambit games were played before chess clocks.

CTC (Bogg)





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